Trump is usually an ass, but he really nailed it with “Pocahontas”
Why did they censor her date of birth? That is not a secret, is it?
29 thoughts on “Elizabeth Warren’s Texas bar registration”
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Trump is usually an ass, but he really nailed it with “Pocahontas”
Why did they censor her date of birth? That is not a secret, is it?
Comments are closed.
Scoop
1.I don’t know how you know what her family told her about this. She has commented on it some, but what she knew may have changed over time.
She seems to have a pretty lengthy period of believing she was an American Indian.
2.Stating things people believe as facts without checking them if they favor a particular point of view is a normal cognitive biases. The lying comes in when people have either been shown they aren’t true or when the ‘fact’ never made sense in the first place (though that could be other things than lying.)
If you are looking for a person who has never lied at all, you must be related to Diogenes.
In reality, as far as I’m concerned, the best a person can do is use their own judgement to evaluate the over all honesty of a person (or of a candidate) to determine if they lie intentionally and over what sorts of things they lie about.
My judgement of Elizabeth Warren is that she is a fundamentally honest person, certainly much more so than George W Bush or Mitt Romney (or Bill Clinton.)
“She seems to have a pretty lengthy period of believing she was an American Indian.”
Sorry, I’m not buyin’ that. He most recent Native American relative was probably about the time of the American revolution. Surely she didn’t think being 1/256th Cherokee (maybe – remember that nobody knows for sure who her alleged ancestor was ) would give her the right to list American Indian as her race.
As I keep saying, there is no way she could possibly be that stupid. In fact, she appears to be highly intelligent, although kinda pretentious for somebody from Oklahoma.
Eliminating the possibility of stupidity, a lie is the only remaining explanation.
Yes, all people lie, when circumstances warrant. What worries me is somebody who lies with absolutely nothing to gain, and somebody who asserts facts without looking them up, when it is comfortable for their world view. Trump does that. Warren has also done that, although certainly not to the extent that Trump has.
As mentioned, you can’t compare anyone with Trump. He totally skews the sample. So being more honest than Trump is about like being kinder than Pol Pot. And a major difference between Trump and Warren is that Warren has a normal amount of human shame. She has apologized for the Native American stuff, and she also apologized for her preposterous claims on the prison population. Trump never backs down on anything, not matter how outlandish.
But still, these things are indications of poor character, and surely the Democratic party can do better.
From the L.A Times
House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy’s family benefited from U.S. program for minorities based on disputed Native American ancestry
Somehow I doubt the major media outlets will get as worked up over this as they were with Elizabeth Warren.
Have you seen how awkwardly she “casually” drinks a beer? Having Indian heritage is probably the most exciting thing in her life and she was probably just giddy writing that down. The one part of the story that makes me believe she deluded herself as opposed to being simply dishonest is that she took that gosh darn test and posted the results. There seems to be a level of such cluelessness over the whole thing that I think she somehow she may have really bought into it.
I really like her, like I like John McCain when they were both smart and snarky on Jon Stewart. She is toast now. I had similar lore in my family where the was a great great granddad who trailed a rifle for and Indian wife. But never ever did I look in the mirror or look at my parents and think “I’m an Indian” It was just interesting conversation and made me feel less whitey guilt when I was younger.
Though I give Trump a small win, I would say that calling someone Pocahontas is about as bad as calling anyone claiming Mexican heritage Jose.
You wouldn’t be calling Mike Pence “Miguel” if he had somewhere claimed his ethnicity was latino? I would.
I have to admit that if somebody as white as Warren – say Mitt Romney – were caught claiming he was a latino on a form, I would be calling him Tuco, and posting pictures of him in a sombrero, facing down Lee Van Cleef and Clint Eastwood.
Just as I (and everyone else) did with Carlos Danger.
And Trevor Noah would be doing the exact same thing.
I completely disagree. Occam’s razor suggests that Elizabeth Warren wrote that she was an American Indian because she thought she was an American Indian.
Oh, now I get it. She’s not dishonest. She’s dumb!
She’s beginning to sound more like Trump all the time! Just what we need, another person where we have to debate whether she is dishonest or stupid. A left-wing Trump is just what the country needs!
On a more serious note, I assume you are kidding. There never could have been a time when she thought she was a Native American. Everyone in her family was white European, and every family member they ever met was white European. The possibility of a Native American ancestor was only a family legend, and it was so many generations earlier that nobody could possibly have been sure. Nobody with even half a brain could have thought that entitled her to write “American Indian” down as her race. That was obviously a lie.
More than just a lie, though, it was an indication that she is a person of very poor character. I’ve had enough of those in high office. Surely the Democrats can produce a candidate who can consistently tell the truth and also fact-checks any claims he or she might make.
If Trump ran against Elizabeth Warren, I would vote for her, but that’s not much of a recommendation. To paraphrase Winston Churchill, if Trump ran against Satan, I would have to vote for the Father of Lies – but I’d also consider a vote for Lucifer.
It doesn’t make sense. Why would she have written “American Indian” on that document unless she actually believed she was an American Indian? There was no material benefit to her.
I don’t know how you know what her family situation was like.
Adam
You get once back to the same problem I posed before. If she genuinely believed that a whispered and unidentified ancestor from (most likely case) 8 generations before entitled her to claim that she was an “American Indian,” then she is obviously incredibly stupid.
Since I don’t believe she is at all stupid, my only possible conclusion is that she lied.
Why did she lie? Liars lie. They don’t need any incentive or motivation.
(And she has previously shown a willingness to state facts without researching them if they agree with her weltanschauung, as previously noted.)
Comedians of course, but I think few politicians much less presidents add funny nicknames to other politicians’ names.
Sen. Warren has claimed she never sought, nor did she receive any professional advantage from her claim of Native American ancestry. Leaving aside the absurdly low genetic percentage, her original story was that it was a family legend (or some similar wording) that she had a Native American ancestry. But that ancestor was far enough back, she didn’t even know how far back. Why would that be enough to claim to be an American Indian? That is really reminiscent of the old racist “one drop” rules. What possible reason could she have had to identify to as an American Indian to the exclusion of all other ethnicities except for the possibility of gaining some kind of advantage from it? Clearly there was a possible advantage to be had in her chosen career as a law professor since universities put such a premium on affirmative action and representation of disadvantaged minorities. Perhaps I should have identified as African-American on my law school applications since I know for a fact I have ancestors who were born in Africa. All homo-sapiens do. If I had I might have had Se. Warren as a professor at Harvard.
You must be a horrible lawyer. The registration card itself says “the following information is for statistical purposes only…” I certainly wouldn’t want a lawyer who can’t even read simple documents properly.
In a way, that’s actually worse. There were formal and informal quotas back then. She may have caused the “American Indian” quota to be met, thus directly depriving some other person of a spot. At the very least, she made it appear to the analysts that the Texas bar was making progress toward diversity when it was not.
Either way, it demonstrates a totally unethical person. We’re not talking about claiming to have some Cherokee blood here, or spouting some family tall tales. She listed her race as American Indian. With that, she joins the deplorables.
And worse, she shows that Trump was right all along. That part is truly galling.
That’s one interpretation. Another is that she genuine believed she was an American Indian, or, at least, of American Indian heritage.
‘genuinely believed’
At some point this gets ridiculous. She claims she had native heritage (or was an American Indian) because her family told her she was. As may be forgotten, this card was signed in 1986 before DNA tests were available (DNA had not even been sequenced in 1986.)
One person on another board replied to me “she should have done an ancestry check if she wanted to claim to be an American Indian” and I replied “why wouldn’t she have believed what her family told her?”
Some of this reminds me of Charles Manson’s lawyer, Irving Kanarak, who wanted the name a person gave of themself at the beginning of their testimony stricken from the court record because it was ‘hearesay because the only evidence they have that’s their name is that their parents later told them.’
You’re really rationalizing desperately. I will say this confidently: At no time could she ever have thought there was enough Native American in her bloodline to claim it as her race. That was simply a lie. All she knew about were distant relatives before anyone’s memory. As we now know it was at least six generations ago, that’s – at closest- the great grandparents of her great grandparents! So nobody Warren has ever met has any direct knowledge of a native American ancestor, and nobody they ever met had such knowledge. Six generations – the best case scenario – is 150 years before Warren’s birth, taking us back approximately to the period between the American Revolution and the War of 1812 (when, admittedly, there were probably many intermarriages between Europeans and Native Americans). Ten generations – the worst case scenario – takes us back to the age of Louis XIV. It was simply a family legend.
Now she may have thought the family legend was true, but even if she did, she knew it could have been at maximum a minuscule percentage of her heritage even if the legend was true. She is a very smart person, and she knew full well that the correct answer on that registration was “White,” and knowing that full well, she put down “American Indian.” That’s an act of egregious dishonesty. As I said, she wasn’t claiming a trace, which would have been reasonable, if uncertain. (In her stead, I would have claimed a trace of Native American heritage in dinner table conversation, but even at that I would have offered many caveats, disclaimers and codicils. I would never have dreamt of saying it was more than a slight possibility about a very distant ancestor.) Instead she was literally claiming to be a Native American based entirely on an unverifiable family legend.
Making matters worse, she is probably the single whitest person I have ever seen. She makes Mike Pence seem like Crazy Horse.
She’s a non starter. Even my most leftist friends agree. This whole thing just shut it all down.
Bernie, Hillary, Biden, and Warren need to sit down and cheer from the sidelines. Almost anyone else will win.
The current betting favorite is Kamala Harris.
The reaction I’ve seen is actually pretty sympathetic to her. Along the lines of ‘doesn’t the media know when to quit with a non-story.’ Or, ‘this shows she really thought she was of native heritage.’
60% of Americans apparently still believe that Trump is ‘self made.’ I think there are a number of ways she could try and benefit off of this by attacking the media and Trump for their hypocrisy.
Or she could just disappear and try to be a great senator. It seems to me that her Presidential aspirations are toast after this evidence came to light.
If Trump could be elected, I’m not so sure that this is the killer it’s made out to be. I think you may not fully appreciate the backlash on the left to the double standard and hypocrisy shown by politicians and the media.
If Trump could get elected and isn’t expected to resign for admitting to being a serial sexual assaulter, I’m not sure that a person genuinely believing she had a native heritage is that big a deal to most people.
The right and the media tried something similar with AOC with her handful of factual errors and even Red State has now admitted, for instance, that the perception of double standard, especially with younger voters, has only increased her popularity.
I don’t agree with AOC’s ideology all that much and I don’t think she intentionally got her facts wrongs, but if there is anybody who plays ‘3D chess’ (or is it 4D chess) against her opponents, it’s certainly her.
I certainly think that Elizabeth Warren is smart enough to attempt the same strategy.
As long as Trump continues the economic success he’s had the first two years, and doesn’t get taken down by Mueller, this will all be a moot point. Even with the gargantuan liberal media machine working against the Pres, the bottom line to most Americans is that we enjoy making more money.
I think she was safe as long as she thought she had SOME Native American heritage, but this obvious case of fraud – claiming that “American Indian” was her race – seems to be too bogus to withstand scrutiny from the right or left.
Not that she had much of a chance. She, like Trump, is not one to get her facts straight, and that problem will loom ever larger as the other Democrats start to need to push her out of the race.
“more people locked up for low-level offenses on marijuana than for all violent crimes in this country”
The total incarcerated population only includes about 15% who are in there for drug-related crimes, and that includes all drugs, all crimes.
That is only for state crimes, not Federal, but 91% of all prisoners are held in non-federal institutions, so it’s essentially the whole ball of wax.
About 46 percent of federal prisoners are in for drug offenses. But these are not mere pot smokers. According to the federal Bureau of Prisons, 99.5 percent of federal drug prisoners are traffickers, and marijuana is involved in only 12 percent of those cases. So those in for marijuana possession are only a tiny fraction of one percent, and even those in for marijuana trafficking are only 12% of 46% (about 5%) of federal prisoners.
Overall, in all state and federal prisons and jails, only 4% of inmates are serving time for any kind of drug possession, and less than 1% of them are serving time specifically for marijuana possession.
Warren’s claim would have been ridiculous even if Trump had made it!
This is a great example of what has benefited AOC. According to the fact checkers, Trump has averaged about 8 lies a day over 2018 and there is no extra demand that he resign.
You have one example here from Elizabeth Warren. Here numbers were wrong and she should be fact checking before making comments (though obviously there are limits to the ability to do that depending on where she made this comment) but her mistake here did not come from nowhere:
From wiki: “The number of incarcerated drug offenders has increased twelvefold since 1980.” (It has subsequently declined starting around 2000.)
So, these sorts of errors by false inference are the sort that people make all the time based on cognitive biases.
If you seriously believe that Elizabeth Warren is as dishonest as Donald Trump is, or anywhere close to it, you clearly have a severe case of Elizabeth Warren Derangement Syndrome.
NOBODY is as dishonest as Donald Trump, so that’s not the basis for comparison, but Warren is pretty much the worst of the rest of the Presidential hopefuls.
Or maybe she’s just utterly clueless. To even imagine that low-level marijuana offenders are at least 51% of the prison population when they are in fact an infinitesimally small percentage does show an utter lack of connection with reality, much like Trump’s contention that you need an ID to buy groceries. So maybe we can say that was was just ivory tower cluelessness and the airy-fairy assumptions of knee-jerk liberalism rather than dishonesty. Personally, I can’t imagine anyone really thinking that was true, but then I live in the real world and she apparently does not.
But putting “American Indian” down as her race shows a level of dishonesty that is truly Trumpian. I would not expect any of the other Democratic candidates to have done anything that flagrantly dishonest in their lifetimes.
Maybe it’s a fake. Like Obama’s birth certificate!
Warren is done. Although she may not know it yet.