We all knew he was running, of course, and he may well get the nomination, but nobody is passionate about him. Bernie and Warren and Beto and Mayor Pete all have enthusiastic supporters, but Biden? He’s just good old Joe. In a race against Trump, his only strong advantage is that he’s a decent human being and Trump is not.
That has never been enough.
In the early days of our republic, John Quincy Adams, one of the men responsible for the idealism of our early republic, lost an election to Andrew Jackson, who was arguably the worst human being ever to attain our presidency, even to this day.
About a century and a half later, Richard Nixon defeated George McGovern in a landslide, despite (to quote the gonzo legend Dr. Hunter Thompson), “The tragedy of all this is that George McGovern, for all his mistakes and all his imprecise talk about ‘new polities’ and ‘honesty in government’ is one of the few men who’ve run for president of the United States in this century who really understands what a fantastic monument to all the best instincts of the human race this country might have been, if we could have kept it out of the hands of greedy little hustlers like Richard Nixon.”
Thompson continued, “McGovern made some stupid mistakes, but in context they seem almost frivolous compared to the things Richard Nixon does every day of his life, on purpose… Jesus! Where will it end? How low do you have to stoop in this country to be President?”
Well, Doc, I am sorry you have to hear this from across the endless expanse of the ethereal plane, but we haven’t hit rock bottom yet.
“Decent, honest” Joe Biden began his presidential announcement by repeating one of the most scurrilous, divisive and long-debunked lies in political history: that Trump said there were “good people” among neo-Nazis. As even CNN once admitted, Trump was plainly talking about the debate over removing Confederate monuments. He was even asked whether he was defending white supremacists during that very press conference and was stunned that anyone would think such a stupid thing, and he stressed that no, he condemned them unequivocally. When someone claims he’s running for President to save America’s soul and can’t even get past the first sentence without repeating a slanderous, obvious lie and insulting my intelligence, he’s not getting my vote.
“one of the most scurrilous, divisive and long-debunked lies in political history”
Yeah, and tell us where Obama was born?
Well, that raises Biden to a 2 on the dishonesty scale from 1 to 100. That leaves him just short of Trump’s perfect 100.
Yup, Biden has made some stupid mistakes, and will make many more, but your point completely supports my argument about search-and-replace, as noted below:
“Biden made some stupid mistakes, but in context they seem almost frivolous compared to the things Donald Trump does every day of his life, on purpose … Jesus! Where will it end? How low do you have to stoop in this country to be President?”
Annoying Orange is out there again today repeating what you’re saying. This is a distinction without a difference. The people who think that there is a master race who should be running things (and – surprise – that race is their race) are the same ones who think that we should leave up monuments to the traitors who fought to preserve slavery. Trump’s point is that they should be honored because they were *effective* traitors.
I’d dispute what you say about someone whose “only strong advantage is that he’s a decent human being.. is not enough. .. has never been enough”, with two words: Hubert Humphrey. In 1968 ALL of the passion was with Sen. Gene McCarthy, who single-handedly pushed LBJ out of the race for re-election; thus opening the door for Robert Kennedy to jump in, followed by millions of his supremely passionate followers. And George Wallace, a Democrat let us not forget, absolutely electrified his own passionate followers; though he would ultimately run as a third-party candidate and carry several states. So three candidates with all the passion in the world behind their sails, yet all the time Hubert Humphrey, totally free of passionate followers, quietly and steadily marched to the nomination — and nearly won the election — and he was one of the most decent politicians of all time and had absolutely no charisma at all.
Humphrey won the nomination that year without winning a single primary.
Back then, lots of states didn’t have voter primaries, and he got delegates the truly old-fashioned way: backroom deals with pols selected to be delegates through the various state political machines.
While technically that can always happen again (since the political parties are private entities), it’s probably highly unlikely to be repeated in this era.
Just to circle back to The Good Doctor…my copy of Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail seems to have grown legs and walked out of here, but I recall Thompson saying something like “You can never understand what a miserably cheap hack Hubert Humphrey is until you’ve spent some time with him on the campaign trail.”
HHH was exactly what you say: a humble man with much to be humble about. We don’t need someone to nearly win this election.
David: that is correct, but irrelevant. I was talking about the general election, not the Democratic nomination. The Dems still love purity. They think it is important, the poor saps.
And if I concede your argument about Humphrey’s decency, it actually supports my point. That decent man lost to … well … once again I turn to Dr. Thompson: “If the right people had been in charge of Nixon’s funeral, his casket would have been launched into one of those open-sewage canals that empty into the ocean just south of Los Angeles. He was a swine of a man.”
I despise Trump for many many reasons, including the fact that he’s so bad I’m seriously considering voting for a Democrat in 2020. Joe Biden may well be the most middle of the road Democrat running for the nomination. I can see myself voting for him, even if unhappily. But if Bernie Sanders gets the nomination, I will probably have to vote for Trump. Sanders’ agenda just seems dangerous to me in both foreign and domestic policy. As outrageous as Trump’s behavior may be, the country seems to be surviving. As a bonus I like his judicial nominations.
Now the Democrats don’t actually need my vote since I live in NY. But there are plenty of people like me in swing states that would never vote for Bernie (or another Democrat espousing his platform). A lot of pundits have been saying if Sanders gets the nomination, Trump is assured a second term. Personally, I think there is no way to tell how the election will turn out because Trump is so unpredictable. But Biden is probably the most likely to beat Trump. That alone is a reason to choose him.
The two above statements suggest that the US is doomed.
Maybe so, but I think he’s essentially correct, don’t you?
I am not surprised to hear that a Trump hater would vote for Trump over Bernie. I don’t think Bernie has a realistic chance of winning, although he may occasionally pull ahead of Trump in head-to-head polling, as he has now. I think many average Americans will think twice about Bernie when they get to the ballot box and think about their wallets, and a lot of people vote with their wallets.
HOWEVER.
I didn’t think Trump had a chance because I greatly underestimated the depth of right-wing anger among those poor, old and uneducated in white America. It is possible that I am now underestimating the depth of left-wing anger in the other classes.
Democrats also have to think about who has the best chance to beat Trump in the general election. At the moment (and moments are ephemeral), that is Biden.
If the election were held today, per the most recent poll:
Biden 53%, Trump 47%
Sanders 51%, Trump 48%
O’Rourke 51%, Trump 49%
Harris 50%, Trump 50%
Buttigieg 49%, Trump 51%
Warren 48%, Trump 52%
In my opinion, the reason Biden is slightly stronger than the others is because there are people in the country who are disappointed in Trump and would give a straight, white, middle-of-the-road male a look, even though they would not vote for (take your pick): a woman, a homosexual, a person with dark skin, a Native American (real or imagined), or a socialist.
I know that. I live in the Midwest and talk to a lot of retired white people every day.
Michael McChesney, you make me agree with Tanner.
Dear god, once you have committed yourself to a side – once you have chosen your “team” – is there nothing your side can do that is so disgusting to make you turn away from them? Is there no act of criminality by Trump, no act of injustice toward human beings who happen to want to immigrate to this country or seek asylum here, no act of servility toward the wealthy or callousness toward those who are not wealthy, that will change your mind?
Or are you fully committed to “rugged individualism”, circa 1928 (except, of course, when it comes to huge banks and insurance companies who have speculated recklessly and are threatening to destroy the whole US economy unless they get public money to fund their losses)?
You like Trump so much? I am so angry I wish a terrible thing upon you: I wish you have to do business with Trump, with a great deal of your life savings. I am sorry, but you have gone beyond the pale.
“In a race against Trump, his only strong advantage is that he’s a decent human being and Trump is not.”
I do not understand the rationale behind this statement. Biden, who gropes and manhandles women of all ages from adolescence through adult, with massive video evidence to prove it, is a decent human being, and Trump who, as far as we know, only TALKED about doing it (and in a locker room no less) is not?
Stanley, why do you always have your facts wrong?
(1) First of all, there was no locker room involved anywhere. Trump talked about how women allow him to grab them by the pussy on the Access Hollywood bus – while miked up!
(2) Joe Biden has never been accused – not once – of inappropriate behavior of a sexual nature. He has only been accused of being friendly and kind in a manner that both women and men found inappropriately touchy, invasive of personal space, and generally creepy. (And I fully agree with them)
(3) Trump, on the other hand, has been accused of sexual misconduct by about two dozen women. (And, of course, he has admitted it himself, not only on Access Hollywood, but also on the Stern show.)
4) Trump has had three wives and cheated on all of them. Biden was widowed, then re-married five years later and has remained scandal-free for the 42 years of their marriage.
5) And, of course, Trump rides porn stars without a condom, while Biden rides trains.
But sexual misconduct is only one aspect of being a good person. It’s pretty safe to say that there is nobody alive who has met or dealt with Trump who thinks he is anything other than a terrible human being. He is completely incapable of telling the truth. He has cheated his business associates and anyone who lent him money. He is obviously a racist and a misogynist. There are some who defend him because he is a member of their tribe, but that’s as far as it goes. There’s really nothing good to say about him as a person, even if you like what he has done in office.
Meanwhile, I’ve never heard anybody say anything about Biden’s character other than that he is a truly decent man. That does not necessarily make him a worthy President (we saw how that worked out with Jimmy Carter!), but it does make him a worthy husband, father, friend, and person.
Of course Joe has been accused. Girls and women he groped came forward and said “yeah, that sucked” and he even apologized.
The videos are all over. This was a habit of his. Whether he had sexual intent or had some wacky idea he was like their grandpa, you don’t get physically affectionate with women and young girls you don’t know.
Cuddle gate is the end for Biden before he starts. Dems can’t afford to lose feminists AGAIN in 2020 like they did when Hillary declared ownership of them because they own vaginas.
This is beyond the career long “crazy uncle Joe” title and the fact that memes of him “being cool” with Obama don’t actually make him cool. He’s an early frontrunner. 10 seconds of actual campaign and he’s done.
Dems have to make a choice people can vote for. “not trump” isn’t enough, because nobody is trump.
Go back and read my post. Not one person has accused Biden of SEXUAL misconduct. Every one who has complained has said his behavior was inappropriate, and it made them uncomfortable, but nobody ever said he was a sexual predator. He just doesn’t understand boundaries, and how they change over time. And it’s not a female thing. He treats men the same way.
I agree it is creepy. But it’s not sexual.
And I am not defending him as a candidate, or saying he should be President. I’m only saying he is a decent human being, while Trump is not. That said, being a better person than Trump is a low bar to clear. That list would include pretty much any living person who is eligible to run.
I agree with what you say about Biden being a decent guy. And I don’t think the touchy/feely stuff will slow him down. But I’m not so sure about the other things in his past, pre-1988. Remember he has already withdrawn from a race for the Presidency where he was a strong candidate solely because he conceded that his critics were right and that he was disabled from being a credible candidate because of his campaign plagiarism and law school plagiarism. Can you think of any other candidate who has withdrawn from an election campaign after conceding the validity of the criticism against him and yet has still run again later for that office? If Biden agreed in 1988 that he was a fatally flawed candidate, how can he credibly claim to be the best choice. (out of 25!) when he still has the same stains on his record? That’s a really heavy lift. Maybe he claims he’s ‘grown’ or ‘times have moved on’. But I don’t think he’ll succeed with that. As I say, I don’t think any candidate who has ever been forced out of a race has successfully run for that same office again later.
Yup. I don’t think he is a very strong candidate, but I don’t think those things would cost him in the general. The previous election established that none of that is important. Things that might have disqualified people in 1988 are no longer important. If you can say “grab ’em by the pussy,” you can pretty much do anything.
But,
I’m pretty sure it will disqualify him from the nomination, because the Dems still insist on a purity test, and the Bernie Bros are already on the case.
Not only that, but I’m sure the Russian bots are already firing up their attack to keep Bernie as a front-runner. I assume they will inundate undecided Democratic voters with anti-Biden material. Remember that the Russians supported Bernie as enthusiastically as they supported Trump in 2016. This time I assume both the Russians and the Chinese will do their best to knock down anyone who seriously challenges Bernie. To have Bernie running is a win-win for them. If he loses – more Trump, more chaos. If he wins, he nudges the USA toward socialism, and (arguably) hurts the economy.
Sit down Joe, sit your plagiarizing ass down. Write your memoirs, film personal endorsements for the firm of Olde, Slow, and Indaway. Show up on election day and pull the handle for Bernie or Pocahantas. That’s how you can help.
When you pass on and see Beau again, do it without your face carved up there on Mount Suckmore next to Hillary’s.