“Every room at the Plaza could be filled at the ‘rack rate’ (list price) every night and the revenue still wouldn’t cover the monthly payment of the loan he’d taken out to buy the place. In other words, he’d made a ridiculous deal.”
I hate myself for defending Trump, but that deal was probably not so ridiculous.
If the plan had been to be the owner of the Plaza and nothing more, it was a preposterous deal, but that was never his intention. He was using the Plaza as part of his branding scheme, to make himself seem like New York’s most important developer by placing his name in very large letters atop some of Manhattan’s most notable landmarks. The losses at the Plaza didn’t matter much if the hotel was furthering his master plan, which was basically a long con. It also needs to be pointed out that the master con ultimately worked. By making media appearances, by slapping his name on prestige properties and by publishing his books, he sold himself to the world as a financial wizard and the ultimate Big Shot.
His salesmanship produced two important results:
1. He was eventually able to make money without capital investment, simply by franchising the rights to the Trump name. The Holy Grail of business is to continue to make money without spending any, and the effect of successful franchising is multiplicative. Because somebody licenses the Trump name to put atop an impressive and splashy hotel in City X, the fawning articles in glamorous magazines and upscale newspaper style sections inspire somebody else to do so in City Y, and so forth.
2. He was able to land his TV gig as a legendary business genius on The Apprentice, which viewers interpreted as a reflection of reality. That cemented his reputation while earning him a nice chunk of change from the network.
And all of that ultimately led to the Presidency, although I’m not sure he ever expected to win that election. He certainly would have made much more money by losing and thereafter continuing to splash his name atop the most lavish properties in the world’s glitziest downtowns (including Moscow).
There are other things to consider before you convince yourself that the Plaza deal was idiotic:
Context is critical. Did he have an out that isolated Plaza losses from his personal wealth? In other words, did his deal allow a default on the loan or a bankruptcy of that unit without requiring him to cover those moves with money from other business assets or his personal assets? If the bank(s) allowed him to take out that loan without guaranteeing it from some other source, then the Plaza deal may have been the work of an unscrupulous genius rather than a clueless buffoon.
Finally, he talked the bank(s) into making that loan. That in itself was a form of business genius. Their analysts were certainly capable of making the calculation showing that the Plaza could not pay back the loan even assuming 100% occupancy at the full rate, but the bank(s) gave him the money anyway.
(Most banks did eventually start treating Trump like a pariah after a few such deals, because of the “fool me once” rule, but he eventually found Deutsche Bank, which seemed to have a very high tolerance for risky ventures.)
My own personal take-away:
Some of the deals Trump made to acquire highly visible and prestigious properties might be seen as folly in isolation and/or viewed solely from the perspective of short term profits, but they paid off in the long run. Yes, maybe he lost a big chunk of change while entertaining oil sheikhs and the glitterati in the suites and ballrooms of his ostentatious hotels, country clubs and casinos. Big deal. In essence, all he was really doing was picking up the tab to impress his dinner companions, albeit on a very large scale. He was spending some dollars to create a myth. And he succeeded. People continued to believe in the image of the grand and glorious wizard even after they saw the little man in the booth.
Wow. Been a while since I read through the comments here. It is amazing how many Democrats, Liberals and Snowflakes there are here.
YOWZA! Herbert! The Socialists have arrived at the Port of Other Crap!
“Snowflakes”
Signed,
Conservatives who bitch and moan at every moment’s notice about free speech.
An inconvenient truth.
“If you simply open your eyes and LOOK, you will see that he has made major improvements in the country in pretty much all sectors; unemployment, the economy, illegal immigration, taxes, jobs… all while embroiled in the Mueller investigation.”
Wow, this is such an ignorant view. So your explanation of Trump’s genius, someone who by basically every account cannot read more than a page of information at time and makes snap binary judgements on emotion, media, or imaginary situations is somehow an economic genius? Really?
Or could it be that the economy has both been expanding, as well as leaving wages stagnant for normal people, for years now? If Trump *really* wants to “Make America Great Again” – then lets try these things: limit the ratio of CEO to average worker pay to what it was in the 60s. Tie minimum wage to the inflation rate that it was then, around $18.00 an hour equivalent. Rebalance college tuition to the cost it was then. And rebalance the gains for the median wages that have become stagnant to how much the top 1% gains have been. You know, all the crapboomer Republicans like McConnell and Hatch took advantage of, that they lecture others on now.
Myself, personally, will be fine no matter who is in office. I don’t need to look down at an immigrant or a minority and worry about anecdotal Fox News stories about someone cheating the welfare system or looting or whatever cherry picked story of the day is to create my worldview.
The fact is, Trump is no different than that same trickle-down economic policies that have polluted the US for decades. The tax cut went EXACTLY how everyone expected. Studies of corporate monetary policy showed virtually no company passed on any meaningful amount on to employees or consumers. It went STRAIGHT to shareholders – in which the vast majority of which benefit the executives and the connections that directly benefit those who decide what to do with the money.
I’ll tell you EXACTLY what happened. I actually do pretty well for myself, in a Fortune 100 company. Did I get a ‘decent’ bonus earlier this year? Sure. But you know what happened? The board, the CEO, and the chief officers, took most of that money to pump into stock manipulation and cashed in $28 million once the stock price was manipulated near all time highs – which has since dropped off.
I’ve never understood WHY you conservatives think this helps the economy. Why do you think this way? Your entire basis of economic theory is based on if you make millionaires into billionaires, and get billionaires closer to trillionaires, out of their thirst for greed somehow ALL of us will benefit. Either that, or each of you think you’re temporarily disenfranchised future millionaires, that hold on to that pipe dream that whenever you become a millionaire with no education or credentials, you don’t want to be taxed.
Newsflash: Keynesian/liberal economic theory won out, and once it won out, Republicans *HAD* to come up with a gameplan because they were done. Look at the election charts. Virtually every state since the Great Depression and the New Deal was liberal until the Civil Rights Act. Eisenhower would have been called far left in today’s climate.
Republicans could NOT win based on the economic theory that just being greedy enough will help everyone, so they turned their attention to divide and conquer with racial tribalism and manipulating the weak minded. Reagan’s ‘Southern Strategy’ even ADMITS as much. It’s a hell of a lot easier to to pull the strings to get each other to fight one another based on ‘hey heres a welfare queen in front of your face, on the news, in political commentary – go after him, while I help myself to manipulate stocks and tax breaks in backroom for a million times as much as this guy.’
It really is astonishing how easily manipulated you conservatives are. You guys can’t win on theory, so it increasingly gets more batshit over time with the conspiracy theories. You don’t need a conspiracy theory to simply show facts as to why your worldview is dead wrong.
“Can’t be bought” from the same person espousing “there is none so blind as he who will not see” is the funniest one two punch I’ve seen in a long time. Make sure to get some oxygen to your brain while your head is under the sand. I don’t want to lose any more of your great comedy.
Well William, I did not attack u personally, I said your argument was specious and that you parachial (not an attack) and myopic, which was a response to you claiming that the economy was great because of him.
Nothing personal, just observations.
If I wanted to be personal, I would say that you were quite happy having your pant pulled. Down around your ankles while Trump fucked you ass and Putin was fucking your mouth, and you kept asking for more, however, I didn’t.
Amazing.
There is a line from a song, “Everything is Beautiful” by Ray Stevens that fits you folks…
“There is none so blind as he who will not see…”
I have not seen a single bit of reason here, just personal attacks. So, since you all seem to think that debating is attacking the person and not the point… SEE YA!
You asked why no one likes Trump. We explained it. You were unhappy with the answers. You…win? Whatever.
If you don’t want the genie, don’t rub the lamp.
to be fair, Roger’s closing statement, “Go to hell,” was undeniably a personal attack. So it’s not as if William had no basis to complain.
Finally, the Tone Police. Egad officer, you’re none too soon. True, our ordure-pated chief executive is rapidly steering a course for a cross between Leave It To Beaver and the Kingdom of Gilead – only poorer. Verily, this fellator of caprines is a disingenuous mountebank and a renowned copraphage, but the scales have fallen from my eyes. You’ve put your finger in the single most important thing: the tone. I cheerfully withdraw my earlier remarks.
William,
Your argument about having a great economy because of him is specious. If that is your only measure, you should move to China as their economy is doing so much better than yours… Low inflation, low unemployment, growth in the near double digits. Many, many countries arendoing well, it is part of the cycle and the cycle started well before he got into office and he fortunately lucked into it.
You are very parochial and my question to you is: what would your economy be like if you had person with the whole of the US best interests at heart. You could have universal health care, like my country does, a living wage and security that if you are genuinely looking for work, the government will provide a safety net for you.
But what this amalgamation of all the worst of greed in men has done is focus on disadvantaging one part of the economy for the betterment of a small, vocal part of the population.
Stop being so myopic, look outside your front door and see that many other nations are doing it better, without the constant childish jibes and devisive rhetoric, and the days of utmost US superiority are under attack from Trumps friends.
Ok, but that still does address the basic question. All of the Presidents listed in the comments above were in no way hated as much (with the exception of Nixon, maybe) as Trump is.
IMHO… Trump is hated by those who hate him because he is rich, powerful, successful and maybe just a little bit slippery. Those are probably the same reasons the other side loves him. He can’t be bought because he is so rich, he knows how to run a large business and the American government is one of the largest businesses in the world and he is moving to set Washington back on its feet, after decades in the mud.
Do I understand the intricacies of all of this? Of course not. I’m just an average middle class American who sees what he likes and likes what he is seeing in Trump. He reminds me of Reagan in a lot of ways. I don’t listen to what Trump says because like a lot of powerful men, he tends to use misdirection a lot – saying one thing while doing something else or saying something crazy to get his opponents concentrating on that while he goes on and does his job without their interference.
If you simply open your eyes and LOOK, you will see that he has made major improvements in the country in pretty much all sectors; unemployment, the economy, illegal immigration, taxes, jobs… all while embroiled in the Mueller investigation.
Imagine how much more he could have done if the Democrats hadn’t acted like a bunch of spoiled children throwing a temper tantrum and the Mueller thing had not been an issue
William W Stanley, OMG, please. People do not hate Trump because of virtues he manifestly does not possess. And if you like what you see in Trump, I would suggest there are a truckload of virtues you also do not possess, perception being one of them.
You attribute to Trump achievements that are not his, or really any presidents, such as any drop in unemployment, or any significant change in the economy. Just as Hoover or Coolidge did not cause the Great Depression and FDR did not end it.
If you think Trump has changed things for the better with either illegal immigration or taxes,….you are a bad person. Trump has taken children from their families, and enriched the already fantastically rich at the expense of the US deficit, which Republicans used to say they cared about.
To sum up your post, if only we saw things the way Putin wants us to, we would love Trump. Go to hell.
Question:
Why does everyone hate Trump so much? Because you think he’s an idiot/incompetent/cheater? We’ve had men like that in the office before. Lots of them. Before Obama, Jimmy Carter, while a good and decent man at heart was probably the most incompetent President we’ve ever had. Gerald Ford couldn’t seem to stand upright when he was on any kind of staircase. Nixon was a simpleton who was badly overtaken by the power of his office and the crooks he appointed to be around him. JFK and LBJ were both notorious womanizers who cheated on their wives on a regular basis. Even (I Like) Ike had a mistress!
So that pretty much covers all the moral failings of Trump.
So aside from all that, why do Trump haters hate Trump?
If you honestly don’t know, I don’t think it’s going to be possible to explain it to you.
Boy, now THAT’S original!
You made the case yourself. He combines all the worst elements of every previous president, with the added kicker that he constantly insists that none of it is true.
The one major thing you could have added – in addition to the moral failings of JFK, LBJ and Clinton, the incompetence of Carter, the hilarious physical buffoonery of Ford, and the ethical failings of Nixon, he also stirs the white supremacy of Jackson into the mix.
SIDEBAR: While pathologically insecure, Richard Nixon was a brilliant man. In terms of raw intellect, he was probably the smartest president since the ill-fated Garfield, which makes him the smartest of the 20th century. As they say in the horror movies, “If only he could have used his genius for good instead of evil.” As his partner-in-evil Kissinger once said, “Just imagine what he might have accomplished if anyone had ever loved him.”
And additionally, “the white supermacy of Jackson” is the major reason why Trump lovers love him so much.
You’re crazy. In that one statement you have done “a Clinton” and accused 70% of the country of being white supremacist. Perhaps your are simply embossing YOUR beliefs on the rest of us?
“70% of the country”, huh?
Well, we can certainly see why you love Trump. Not very good with numbers.
Willam W Stanley, Trump is not a good man. Good men do not revel in their ability to grab women by the pussy. The do not have affairs with other women while their wive are giving birth. They do not move heaven and earth to conceal every fact about their business affairs.
Most of all, they do not lie about anything and everything, like what country their father was born in, starting on the very first day of their inauguration as President, and never ceasing for a day thereafter.
I might add they do not praise sessionists, nor spew hatred immigrants simply for attempting to immigrate, nor berate the free press simply for existing, but I would rather not be hear all day.
If this makes you unhappy to read, does knowing Putin backs you up 100% make you feel any better?
RE: And additionally, “the white supremacy of Jackson” is the major reason why Trump lovers love him so much.
—-
What scares me is that it might really be the only reason, with all the rest being spin.
Remember that at one time, Trump was a one-issue politician – questioning Obama’s birthplace. There was never any reason to question that in the first place, so the entire issue was pure racism, which essentially means that Trump’s original cult was based entirely on racism.
Now I’m fully aware that he has broadened his focus, but I really wonder how much of his underlying support is still just pure racism. My guess is – a lot.
Now, I’m not talking about the admitted outright racists – the uneducated, hateful people with the KKK hoods and the confederate flags who always call Obama by his middle name. I’m talking about those “very fine people” on their side.
I have several almost-lifelong friends (dating back to high school) who are Trump supporters. I know these guys well. I know they are racists. They are not really malicious guys. I would not call them bad people. They are kind to those they love, and they support worthwhile causes like organ donation,
but …
But they truly believe that non-whites are “those people,” who will ruin our country by sucking up entitlements, cheating the system, blah, blah … you know the drill. When I talk to them now, I can read between the lines to see why they support Trump, and I wonder just how many of Trump’s supporters are exactly like these guys – old white men, mainstream Americans, who simply don’t want the world to change from the one they knew, the one where non-white people “knew their place.”
I also know that they are just filled with the nonsense they hear on Fox News. They basically parrot Hannity’s talking points – the same points that Fox’s own legitimate newsmen (yes, they have some) have to debunk time after time.
I was just down in Florida playing golf with two of them, and their entire TV-watching routine consists of Fox News and The Golf Channel.
I wish I could give my old friends more credit. I wish I could tell you how much they have grown since we were kids.
But I can’t.
And it makes me sad.
I also run into those people, it really is sad.
The only thing I can do is counter them with logic, research, and statistics to counter anectodal-isms and emotion. They can either then expose themselves to be living in a false worldview even more by their response, or if a very few have enough sense to change, can do that. Either way it an improvement.
The way I look it, is we can do the same old thing, the same old way, throughout human history – and get the same damn result. Why is is surprising that authoritarianism and subjugation of a group of people that have any attribute for any period of time leads to poverty and poverty leads to crime, addiction, disease. Can’t we establish that much? Regardless of race, religion, or time period?
We’re not even a single living person away yet who had not lived through separate services for separate colors of skin for God’s sake. In 500 years people will be looking back at us and this time period, the way we look back at how sewage and medical treatment with leeches were used in the Middle Ages.
The facts are right there if people look at research rather than anecdotal stories and emotions from propaganda. The top 1% share of income is rising exponentially. Everyone else’s wages are stagnant or going down. Immigrants pay more taxes than they take in, there’s no influence on crime rate, and scholarly articles show they actually commit less crime. These are established facts, it’s not based on the commentary of some multi-millionaire conservative Fox News or radio pundit with a financial motive to drop a hot take to get people to react emotionally and skew their worldview.
Unfortunately, like George Carlin once said, there’s a lot dumb mother fuckers in this world. Just take the average person, and half of the people are dumber than them!
Well, it’s the dose that makes the poison.
Everyone lies. Trump lies double-digit times a day; lies when he knows he’s not going to be believed (I had the biggest inauguration crowd ever!), when he gains nothing even if he were believed (I was born in Germany), repeats the same lie many times on the off chance that one gullible voter in a million will end up believing him (Mueller cleared me!). And that’s just the lying.
It’s one thing to have normal human failings. Not being perfect is different from being Trump’s equal. Take all the bad traits, turn them up to 11, throw them in a pail with a gallon of Night Train on top, set fire to it, and you’re starting to get something like our president.
Yeah, and fuck that wig too.
I’m reminded of a passage from Herodotus regarding the meeting of Solon and Croesus, the latter having become a cultural byword for wealth without wisdom.
“Whoever passes through life with the most and then dies agreeably is the one who, in my opinion, O King, deserves to bear this name. It is necessary to see how the end of every affair turns out, for the god promises fortune to many people and then utterly ruins them.” (Hdt. 1.32.9)
We have yet to see the end of Trump’s story, and I suspect that it will indeed be utter ruin.
Wishful thinking but it looks like the only thing utterly ruined will be the lives and careers of the deep-staters who tried to take down Trump. Grab your popcorn, this will be fun to watch!
Suspect you might well be the wishful thinker here.
I don’t think wishful is not the right word for Brobonk’s thinking. He believes in the deep state. Deluded would be better. Is there some new word to describe those who willingly embrace arcane conspiracies, and reject documented facts?
Yes, it’s “Republicans.”
A couple things:
1 – Regarding the loans. I suspect any guarantees might have come from his father. Fred Trump propped up Donald’s businesses much more than Donald let’s on.
2 – Its impossible to tell how much of this is calculated. He does show a certain amount of talent for showmanship and his instincts cause him to do the most showy thing in any case.
Honestly, he’s like Paris Hilton on a much bigger scale.
Greg, a very perspicacious commentary.