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108 thoughts on “COVID-19 update

  1. Regarding GOP Governor’s polls:
    Most of the top GOP governors lead blue states. Its almost like if your job is potentially on the line its probably a good idea to be competent. DeWine is the only outlier here. He cheated to get into office but like Kasich he seems to understand that doing your job properly is best way to keep your job.

    Most of the rest are various shades of evil or stupid but are in little danger of losing their offices.

  2. DeSantis is at 58%…. He is firing everybody who is questioning the data.
    Reynolds was so competent at her job, she ended up in quarantine, and is still at 60%.
    I guess you have be burying your citizens in mass graves before your approval rating dips below 50%….

      1. I think Americans tend to rally around their leaders in time of crisis. As I recall, each of the Bushes was in the 90s in their darkest hours.

  3. Glad to see nearly another half trillion dollars of wealth dropped on the same 200 or so people who already own half the world’s worth of it.

    Meanwhile you have fucktards like Lindsay Graham and Mitch McConnell bitching about $600 to live being too much incentive for people barely making ends meet from going back to wage slavery.

    Feel free to explain what contributions to the human race have Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg made in the past month to ‘earn’ that wealth. Oh I forgot, they’ve contributed so much already to society with getting a shitty trinket mailed a few days faster and cheaper than otherwise, and an overglorified bulletin board with pictures and bullshit.

    Here, obviously you guys deserve to live like gods, because of rugged individualism and all that. Here’s some more money.

    1. Such is the world as it has come to be, Indy. Money is the measure of all things (I had somehere – Steve, perhaps? agree with exactly that statement) and billionaire and their corporations buy our politicians, who then consider it their highest duty to carry out their requests. “Beau of the Fifth Column” just did a very good video about how Mitch McConnell’s corporate campaign contributions line up exactly with his political positions.

      1. Crony capitalism is the root of all evils. In better times Facebook and amazon would have been broken up. They are the very definition of monopolies and they are monopolies in multiple industries. In amazons case, the role of distributor and retailer have been merged. Separation of manufacturing, distribution, and retail kept a level playing field. Now, if anything brings prices down, it’s allowed regardless of totalitarian control of supply and demand. Bezos and zuckerberg are liberals however. They should stop being hypocrites and give it back. And our politicians need to get their hands out of the cookie jar and do their jobs.

        1. Wow. The two billionaires Steverino does not like are the same two Trump does not like. Color me stunned, with shadings of being surprised this thread is still open for comments.

          You remind me of someone parroting Stalin, Steverino. Just to be clear, to me that is a BAD thing.

          1. Does Trump dislike Zuck that much? I know he is made at Jack from Twitter, but Zuck seems to be on the liberal shit list because of his hands-off approach.

            I think Steverino may have a point on Amazon. Granted, Bezos built his empire because he had a better idea and developed it, but so did Standard Oil, and the monopolistic power of Amazon today is (arguably) not very different from the monopolistic power of John D Rockefeller in his own time.

            The difference is that Amazon’s might, while bad for competitors, has been good for consumers. It has created lower prices. This reduces the pressure to find them guilty of antitrust practices.

            Granted, they have never flipped the switch from destroying their competitors with low margins to harvesting that investment by gouging consumers, but the greater question is whether we should allow them to hold that switch. Many people say we should not.

            And there is more to consider than consumers. There is a real danger in allowing one company to be so crucial to the nation’s employment picture, and so critical to inflation control, that we are willing to condone poor employment practices to keep prices low and the economy humming.

            So … maybe we do need break up Amazon. Or not. I haven’t given it enough thought to reach a conclusion, but I think it’s a least a topic worthy of discussion. Trump can occasionally stumble upon a reasonable idea when he lashes out in one of his blind rages.

          2. Second matter: comments closing.

            I have not closely studied the coding in the Word Press set-up, but I think the reason why this topic is never closed for comments is that I keep manually changing the posting date to 1 minute after midnight every day when I update the covid stats.

            I think the Word Press “comment closing” function is based upon calculating a certain time after the posting date (I have that set at two days in the admin choices), so when I change the posting date I am constantly pushing the closing date back to a time two days in the future – a time that will never arrive.

            It’s like that annoying song “Tomorrow – you’re always a day away.” The closing of comments is always two days away.

            (I never thought about it until I saw your comment.)

        2. My apologies, Steverino, I got Facebook and its owner mixed up with Twitter. Trump does have a few with Bezos, though, and somehow the US Postal Service is threatened as a result. IIRC, which is not a given.

          1. Trump, vengeful clown that he is, seems to think that by raising certain postal rates, he can hurt Bezos. But Bezos has plenty of other options if that happens. The people who will get hurt are the folks who are completely Postal Service dependent, most of whom are part of his “Base”.
            Trump’s complete and only motivation here is to get at the owner of the owner of the supposed “tax dodge” Washington Post which relentlessly and accurately reports on his actions as President, his general sleaziness and his low rent appointees, as well as harboring some very articulate critical columnists (including about half of the best conservative ones left).
            He could give a rat’s ass about monopolies. The Amazon monopoly question has several sides, I’m not decided myself. But when it comes to monopolies I’m a lot more worried about a company overrun by bean counters having a near monopoly on large aircraft production (Boeing) than I am about Amazon.
            Crony capitalism? Yeah right. This isn’t Russia. Yet.

          2. Just so you know, I specifically mentioned Bezos and Zuckerberg because that’s who Indy used as examples. I’d imagine you and I are on the same team on this argument although for different reasons. Big business and big government are in cahoots. They are both oppressive to the individual and to small business. They stifle innovation, entrepreneurship, and local businesses through bureaucracy, predatory pricing, and taxes. To scoops point about “the lever”, regarding controlling supply and demand, they have already pulled it. No small business can set up factories in China and mass produce at the levels necessary to offer cheaper products. No small business can negotiate cheap shipping with the post office to offer free two day shipping to the consumer. No small business can supplies in enough quantity to offer wholesale pricing. Amazon lost money for over a decade before eliminating all of their competitors and now make exponential profits. Amazon invested in cheaper pricing and free shipping while covering their losses through outside investments due to consumer adoption. If I have unlimited resources, i can buy a light bulb at a dollar, sell it to you for 50 cents, and gain 100% market share, put my competitors out of business and then raise prices or squeeze my suppliers. It’s the sole business model of companies like dollar shave club. And since the lines of distribution and retail have been eliminated, I can cut out the stores and put retail out of business too.

  4. The latest from Imperial College:

    We predict that increased mobility following relaxation of social distancing will lead to resurgence of transmission, keeping all else constant. We predict that deaths over the next two-month period could exceed current cumulative deaths by greater than two-fold, if the relationship between mobility and transmission remains unchanged. Our results suggest that factors modulating transmission such as rapid testing, contact tracing and behavioural precautions are crucial to offset the rise of transmission associated with loosening of social distancing.

    Overall, we show that while all US states have substantially reduced their reproduction numbers, we find no evidence that any state is approaching herd immunity or that its epidemic is close to over.

  5. UncleScoopy says: “I thought it was dishonest for Trump to be shilling for the drug [hydroxychloroquin] when it seemed to have no benefit, but now that I know it actually kills people, he absolutely should tell his followers to use it. He should especially push this message in the purple states! If you really trust Trump, take mass quantities of this drug, the more the merrier!”

    I know it is wrong to feel this way, but I do too. At least I hope Trump guzzles it.

    1. Yes. Very wrong. I was being hyperbolic. I really don’t want to see anybody get sick and die unless they are homicidal or otherwise psychopathic.

      But if people die believing Trump’s word, that pretty much illustrates natural selection, doesn’t it?

  6. What do you say to people who have been actively taking HCQ daily for years?
    Strange how an FDA approved drug is suddenly dangerous.
    Leader of the free world is taking it, but “orange man bad”!

    1. “Leader of the Free World”. There’s a laugh. Who with a brain in his head would let themselves be led by Trump? You, odinofknowledge?

    2. HCQ is an effective treatment for Lupus.
      HCQ is not an effective treatment for Covid19.

      Its almost like we have different drugs to combat different problems. What drug is Trump going to off up as a miracle cure? Viagra? A good solid erection will fix it!

    3. You know what other drugs people have been taking for years?

      Cancer chemotherapy. FDA approved drugs (for the treatment of cancers). Also dangerous. Maybe Trump should take some of those, too.

      But thanks for boiling down for us the essence of Trump Voter intelligence.

  7. This “study” is BS, seems to me. I only skimmed but I gather they studied a grand total of 1 subject who tested positive but had been asymptomatic. Contract trading some 500 exposures, no one else got sick. But many were wearing masks. So a possible conclusion is simply that social distancing is effective. Kind of like fatality rate (CFR) being a function of care. We try to “flatten the curve” specifically to suppress CFR due to care saturation. What did the silent spread look like when we all believed only the sick were contagious and due to shortage of masks (for medical workers) essentially everyone was going around without a mask? Well, we can’t really answer that.

  8. “Infectivity of some asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 carriers might be weak“

    Well, enough weasel words in there to form a non conclusion.

  9. The point is science makes nuthin-burger claims when it’s bad science. Media collude w sci hype cuz clickbait. Liars weasel cuz respectable coverage detects qualifiers as inoculating while receptive ears take at “face value”. No lose. Point of pointing out nuthin-burgers is so at least we few non-idiots acknowledge what’s goin on. I called BS cuz that’s what’s goin on here.

    1. “Science” isn’t claiming anything here. I clicked expecting to see another example of how reporters are only good at doing two stories: This Is A Universal Cure, or This Is A Deadly Poison. Any detail more complex than that is omitted, and in an internet age where it would be dead easy to link to the underlying paper, they can’t be bothered to.
      The cnn article isn’t even that. It doesn’t report science – there was no hypothesis, no experimentation, no analysis. It’s closer in spirit to a couple of accountants pissing on each other. Call it a steaming pile if you want (& I will agree with you), but don’t file it in the Science drawer.

      1. With respect, I dunno wha you’re talkin bout. Scoop’s topmost entry added 5/25 is linked to PubMedCentral full article/open access. Tanner’s “weasel words”/”non conclusion” followup is quoting this *science* paper’s conclusion–and final words. Sorry, science drawer. Plop.

        1. OK, fair enough. I was meaning the cnn article linked a few jumps up in the comments.
          Reading the paper, this is a retrospective study of everyone who contacted *one* asymptomatic carrier. Of course you can’t draw broad conclusions from that. That’s why all the weaseling – they’re basically saying “Don’t read too much into it (especially don’t start acting like everything’s cool now), but here’s some data”.
          In normal times, this wouldn’t be a story, but here we are.

  10. China is a totalitarian dictatorship. I give their ‘studies’ as much credence as the homeopathy and essential oil nutjobs.

    On a positive note, Twitter has finally stepped in and started to tag Trump’s bullshit lies with factual information. I hope he goes insane, him and his supporters both, over this finally happening.

    You’ll hear the usual bullshit free speech shit, as if the world and everyone else’s dime is their own personal platform to yap a bunch of schizophrenic nonsense to everyone they can. Hope they get all locked down and their bullshit is off major platforms forever.

    And tell Billy Bob from Bumfuck, Alabama with the gun and Trump flag that once he’s done cooking meth and fucking his sister to go get his GED and learn how to put together his own server and platform if any of them have a problem with it.

    1. While I don’t entirely disagree with every sentiment you express, it does seem to me you’re hyperventilating. Yes, China has trouble with credibility, openness & seriousness. OTOH, they did marshall an enormous epidemic response after initial kneejerk attempts to hide the news. Wish we could claim as much. Meanwhile, in quite a few fields of science the whole world & the US at the top of the list is suffering a loss of traction by the mainstream. (Read: inability to reach meaningful conclusions.) To which the fringes respond by coopting our increasingly lame pop sci sources to attack that mainstream that they feel victimized by. Because to the incompetent, being asked to breathe fresh air reeks of control.

      1. What looks like a loss of traction may be just you (& me & everybody) wishing that the underlying physical reality was simpler. You get it, then you’re not immune? That’s a new one to me, it feels unfair.
        On top of that, you’ve got President Scheisskopf playing 3-card monte with the N95s and pretending that he’s doing something by naming the project Operation Speedy Speedy GoFast and all the unnecessary resulting deaths.
        Still, there are vaccines in the works. All is not lost, all is only misplaced.

      2. You’ve built a premise on a broken foundation though. You can’t say their response has been great, because as you said, have have trouble with credibility and openness.

        Sure they can present and SAY what their response is, but when they manipulate numbers to present it that way so that companies like Apple feel comfortable opening up Foxconn again – there is very obviously an ulterior motive.

        They’re Big Brother of 1984. They’ve still went so far as jailing and ‘reprogramming’ journalists who’ve tried to talk about the response. They’re pushing hard for the annexation of Hong Kong’s autonomy, as well as manipulating government in Taiwan to push representatives that are ‘pro unification.’

        I don’t consider anything they do or say to be valid, unless it comes from an outside source or free media contacts inside the country who avoid the police.

    2. Aw, don’t come down on Billy Bob. After a tough day of cooking the Devil’s Peanut Brittle, that sheep stood him up. And his sister was *right*there*, what was he supposed to do?

  11. Just a comment on the Swedish numbers on the worldometers site. Just look at the linear graphs on both total cases and total deaths. That’s some scary stuff, it just keeps on going without levelling out. And next to it (geographically), looking at the same stats, Norway hasn’t had a death since May 21 (as of the 27th). It shows two completely different ways of dealing with the same thing.

        1. Well, if you’re a Darwin Libertarian, you’d say that they are trimming the weak and 5 years from now will come out the other side younger and stronger than everyone else.

          But . . . yeah.

          1. Sweden’s top epidemiologist has admitted his strategy to fight Covid-19 resulted in too many deaths, after persuading his country to avoid a strict lockdown.


            Pretty sad.

  12. If I can make one suggestion: given the questionable weekend death count figures,and that, it seems these deaths are reported sometime over the week, it might also be useful to report the weekly death count (from Monday to Sunday, I guess) and not just the daily death count.

  13. Five states on Friday eclipsed their previous records for new covid-19 cases. Mississippi, Utah, Wisconsin, South Carolina and Arizona all set new highs in the daily reporting of new positive cases of the virus.

  14. Over 28,000 new cases today. This looks to be a potential disaster. Some is likely due to increased testing but some is due to relaxed social distancing rules.

    1. The California numbers are especially alarming in a state that had once started to turn the curve downward. They reported 3,600 new cases on Friday, by far their highest ever. Texas also set an all-time high Friday, a feat accomplished by Florida the previous day.

      1. California is the most populous state followed by Texas and then Florida…so it’s not surprising that they are at the top in cases. That’s what you would expect after loosening of social distancing rules. People are being sacrificed for the economy.

  15. Funny how you put Trump as “war” when he’s the only US President the last 3+ decades that hasn’t started one. Obama, the politician that liberals love to present as “the bestest president ever!” started 2 wars for example and destroyed one of the very few countries in Africa that provided for its citizens with universal health care, free higher education, even public housing. Now they have a slave trade and all its gold was stolen by the US.

    Just wanted to point it out because liberal hypocrisy is so funny to me, partly because of the constant grandstanding. Oh btw, in the last crisis American billionaires got even richer than that, partly because *someone* protected the bankers who caused the crisis and left the working class to rot.

    1. I would certainly hold not Obama up as the example of an ideal President. His mistakes were pretty large ones. His responses in Syria and Ukraine were two of America’s biggest foreign policy blunders in recent years.

      He didn’t fail as miserably as his predecessor, but he also had more than a fair share of blunders.

    2. You’re talking about the benevolent Gaddhafi?!!??
      Muhammar was a dead man walking after the collapse of the Soviet Union. It did take a hell of a lot longer to expunge him than I thought it would. Probably the only thing that propped him was the support of the Italians.

    3. “he’s the only US President the last 3+ decades that hasn’t started one.”

      To which I give thanks to our senior military leadership every day. As we can see in the current crisis, they are the ones holding him back from insanity. And it’s not like he hasn’t happily supported plenty of violent attacks and bloodbaths globally, including outright assassination. Hey, remember when he used to roundly criticize Obama for doing that sort of thing?

      And speaking of Obama, back during his terms I would have been happy to spend the afternoon trading stories of his inadequacies, but that is irrelevant now as Trump is the current clear and present danger, and it is his inadequacies that concern me deeply.

      Oh, and while we are talking about “war,” let’s not forget to give credit to Trump for tirelessly fomenting and agitating for a new Civil War all though his campaign and presidency. He has taken every chance he could to play to his base’s paranoia, demonizing and attacking all who oppose him, or even those who have minor disagreements. He has widened gaps that were closing, and it is going to take years to correct the damage.

      He is a disaster on every level, and I am not looking forward to the stunts he will desperately pull as November draws near.

  16. I just don’t understand the American Trump Derangement Syndrome as your conservatives accurately coined it, at least he’s not a war criminal like all of his predecessors. He’s loud and obnoxious like all rightwing populists but the only reason I find, other than optics for such overreactions is that he’s ruining the plans of a neoliberal/neocon establishment that had other plans for this world.

    As bad as Trump’s world is I prefer it over a continuation of the neoliberal/neocon hegemony of constant wars, dystopian worldwide trade agreements, and the slow whitewashing of corporatism through identity politics grandstanding and distractions. I know it’s offtopic but OMG there’s so much hypocrisy in all this and I just don’t understand how American liberals don’t see all this and just focus on the least dangerous pawn in all this.

    1. You are not an American, JohnK? You say you don’t understand the AMERICAN Trump Derangement Syndrome, as if you aren’t from here?

      Also, I take it you are not a neocon or a neoliberal, which you lump together, which I think would startle anyone who identifies as either (does anyone, or are neocons and neoliberals the kind of thing everyone says they aren’t?) Anyway, then, what are you, so that we might know the right course to follow? Conservative, liberal, or something altogether different?

      I find you unusual, JohnK, because you are OK with Trump, but are willing to call George Bush the Younger (and heck, maybe the Elder too) a war criminal. This is new and different in my experience.

  17. You should have left it off at “I don’t understand”.
    American “conservatism” has largely become part of the Trump cult. These people are “conservative” only in the sense that they are not liberal. National Review is a good example. In 2016 they put out an issue filled with nothing but articles on why Trump should not be nominated let alone elected. Now they’re basically part of the “But the Judges” wing of the cult.
    Nobody loathes Trump more than the relatively few remaining real conservatives.
    Or as Baseball Bob once put it, “Don’t criticize what you can’t understand.”

    It’s the 76th anniversary of D-Day and we’ve gone from a President who sent the Screaming Eagles to Little Rock to one who is lusting to turn the Airborne loose on demonstrators. From Ike to Trump. A party can’t go to hell any more than that.

    1. You said absolutely nothing to address my points. The remaining “real” conservatives within the Republican party are neocon psychopaths that seem to be getting along fine with the DNC now. Once they lost power and there was no need for the false dilemma anymore the veil fell and both corporate media and Democrats like Obama starting showing their preference for actual war criminals like Bush, Bolton and their ilk.

      This exemplifies the dangerous hypocrisy of the liberal consensus shaped by corporate media and spoonfed to social media “activists”. Everything is about optics not actions, even obvious exaggeration like Trump letting “Airborne loose on demonstrators” become part of the narrative.

      It should be noted that the entire situation with the American riots has little to do with Trump, if Obama a black president didn’t do shit about police violence which btw is the real problem here, not racism, why the fuck would you expect fucking Trump to do something about it?

      1. Hi, John, me again, still wondering where you get your info and if there is a type of politics you identify with. You say some remarkable things I’d like to know more about, and you seem to bash all kinds of politics equally, which is unusual and interesting. How can we be more like you if you won’t tell us what you are like?

        Oh, BTW, it’s not like we think Trump or Obama could curb police violence before it happens. It’s how they are (or would) react to these protests about it after it happens. Trump wants to call it an insurrection and us the US Army against the protestors. I don’t see Obama going down that road. Do you? Or do you agree with Trump?

        BTW, you ought to read George Orwell’s essay on “Politics and the English Language”. He would advice against sentences like “This exemplifies the dangerous hypocrisy of the liberal consensus shaped by corporate media and spoonfed to social media ‘activists’.” It sounds like pre-canned dogma and not actual thinking. HTH!

  18. Your “points” are incoherent fantastical drivel.
    As far as the Airborne thing you seem to be completely ignorant of Trump’s and Hearing Problem Cotton’s fulminations (both recorded/documented) on that topic during the last week.

    1. Yes, the FACT that Bush, a fucking war criminal, hangs out with the Obamas, his buddies, and who corporate media are slowly whitewashing for example is such a drivel. Also the Airborne thing is a ridiculous exaggeration like I said, they were just backups for the National Guard and only a couple of hundred. Compare that with your claim that Trump wanted to let “the Airborne loose on protestors”.

      1. But Trump does want to do that (unleash the regular Army on protestors). He just hasn’t nerved up to do it yet. And what different does it make if it’s only a few hundred? What he, has to commit a million at once for it to count?

        You seem to be very angry and also to have an unusual take on things, JohnK. Where can we learn more of what you think, and why you think it?

        1. Well, I agree with you, Tanner, but technically, Bush the Younger was in charge. He should have been both impeached and tried as a war criminal on the basis of the faked up documentation “justifiying” war in Iraq. Didn’t happen, of course. There wasn’t even much call for it. That was part of the road leading to Trump.

  19. Da Comrade. Make that “your recorded and documented claim” while you’re at it..

    1. How dumb do you have to be to think that a Russian shill would care to manipulate this site? I like how you people still believe in the Russian boogeyman even after most of your claims were proven wrong, shows how strong the propaganda is. I bet many of you still don’t know that the Steele Dossier was a fake.

        1. The Steele Dossier was opposition research by Democrats based on rumors of low level sources that actually denied ever giving such information.

          Not only it’s a lie but it was an easily disputed one that the FBI and CIA used as an excuse to get unlawful FISA warrants. Of course such an obvious abuse of power was deliberately ignored by most American corporate media because they have the same bosses the American deep state does.

          1. The Steele dossier was originally commissioned by anti-Trump Republicans. Provenance aside, nothing in it has been proven false. The FISA court is a rubber stamp; that is regrettable. But the warrants to follow possible anti-American activity by Carter Page were perfectly legal. This only became a big deal because Page worked for Trump.

          2. JohnK said (about the Steele Dossier): “Not only it’s a lie but it was an easily disputed one that the FBI and CIA used as an excuse to get unlawful FISA warrants.”

            The CIA and FBI used something that was easily “disputed” (?) to get FISA warrants? JohnK, as your rage rises, you are beginning to make less sense. That happens to me too. You will be more persuasive if you calm down. Think about how small the stakes in this forum are, as you point out yourself.

          3. Nature Mom, like I said it is based on low level sources that denied ever giving such information, you can’t prove that purple flying pigs don’t exist either but I’m pretty fucking sure they don’t. Also the Dossier iirc was commissioned first by Democrats and then Republican opposition to Trump bought it, or it might be the opposite. Regardless, no one used it because it was hot garbage and instead decided to “leak” it to their deep state buddies who not only used it as an excuse to get unlawful FISA warrants but then “leaked” it to their corporate media buddies. The entire American system is so corrupt and disgusting.

            Roger Cornelison, at least when I’m making an effort I’m saying something substantial, unlike you whose entire post was a boring ad hominem because you don’t like what you’re reading so you’re bitter.

          4. You started out by saying it’s a fake. I’m just pointing out that wherever it’s been fact-checked successfully, it checked out true. That doesn’t mean I believe the Trump-Moscow-pee story, just that the dossier is not a fake.
            OK, dead horse flogged beyond recognition, I’m out.

          5. Sorry but you sound like religious people that say you can’t prove that God doesn’t exist. The burden of proof is on you to prove that a claim is true, if you have no evidence and all your sources seem imaginary I’ll just assume it’s fake until there’s more evidence. There hasn’t been a single substantial piece of evidence for the golden showers for example, NOT ONE, it’s all hearsay from unverifiable sources.

            Let me present it to you in a different way, Mr Rogers was a murderer according to my sources, you can’t disprove that either. Your argument is an appeal to authority fallacy, you assume that authority isn’t corrupt or doesn’t have ulterior motives. Great movie btw, I had no idea who Mr Rogers was, what a great human being.

          6. While there has not been any evidence for the golden shower story, I think that either it is true or something much like it is true, because

            1. Trump asked Comey to check out and disprove the existence of the tape when he first heard of it. If the event (or something like it) never happened, there could not possibly have been a tape of it, therefore nothing to check out, and Trump would have simply dismissed it as nonsense, but he was clearly afraid that there was some damning evidence of something. (What Trump asked Comey is very similar to asking somebody to prove God doesn’t exist. How is it possible to prove a video tape doesn’t exist? It isn’t. So you kinda have to read between the lines to determine what Trump actually wanted from Comey.)

            2. All of Trump’s explanations for why it could not have happened turned out to be lies.

            He said it wasn’t possible because he didn’t stay overnight. That turned out to be false. Even if it had been true, it was irrelevant. He reserved and used the suite. An overnight stay would not have been necessary for the pee event to have happened. Given that it was irrelevant, why did he tell the lie to begin with? And he repeated this lie over and over. Why would he fabricate this story and insist on it again and again?

            He said it could not have happened because he was a germaphobe. (1) Irrelevant. He was not alleged to have participated in the event, but only to watch from a distance. What does that have to do with germs? (2) Obviously his germophobia is severely limited, or perhaps an outright lie, given (a) his habit of having unprotected sex with strangers; (b) his unwillingness to wear PPE during a pandemic.

            And you know what. I have not been able to find any evidence of him saying it never happened. He just suggested it could not have because … reasons … and none of those reasons proved to be true. Of course I am being a bit disingenuous here, because I would not feel any different if he had come out and denied it. His claims are obviously not assumed to be true.

            So while there’s no definitive reason to believe the story, there’s also absolutely no reason to doubt it. Moreover, the lies told by Trump, as well as his repeated unprompted mention of the matter to Comey, indicate that there’s probably more reason to believe it true than to believe it false.

            My final comment: if it is true, so what? (1) Surely we have had great presidents who did odder and more salacious things – this would have been a low-erotica day for JFK; (2) the truth or falsehood of this story has no bearing on his capability as President of the USA; (3) even if a real tape emerged, it would change nobody’s mind about the president. If the event happened, nobody got hurt. He’s been forgiven much worse things.

          7. So wait, someone trying to disprove unsubstantiated accusations against his character is actually proof that they’re real? What kind of Kafkaesque logic is that? How the fuck do you expect someone not to react like that when the accusations are that extreme?

            The fact that he didn’t know the specifics of the accusations so he gave stupid evidence against it indicates only two things: a) That not only it didn’t happen but also that he has no fucking idea what he’s being accused of exactly b) He’s an idiot

            Your entire post is so Kafkaesque it’s truly unreal, the deep state accused him of a bunch of shit based on zero reliable sources and zero hard evidence and then they and people like you used his overreaction as proof that he’s guilty. You do realize that these dystopian tactics you’re supporting can be used against you or the side you’re supporting, right?

          8. Yes. Of course it isn’t proof, but I think it is not the way an innocent man responds.

            Let’s suppose I’m president and there’s a report that there’s a tape of me having sex with a 12-year-old girl. Of course I don’t ask the FBI to investigate, because I know the act never happened, and therefore I know there isn’t any tape. What’s to investigate? A silly rumor?

            But Trump fabricated two lies to cover up something that “never happened.” Why not just say, “No such thing ever happened, so there’s no need to worry about it or draw further attention to it.”

            Of course, I’m talking about the way a normal human being would react, and he is decidedly not that, so maybe I should make an allowance for the facts that (1) he wouldn’t react as a normal person would, and (2) he lies automatically about just about everything, even when the lie serves no purpose (e.g. “My father was born in Germany.”) So I guess we could say that it was just an example of Trump being Trump, and he lies even to cover up things he didn’t do, because lying is his default behavior.

            As I said, I’m not convinced that the incident happened, since there is no definitive proof, but I think it is likely that there was that or something similar.

            As to your point that the same logic could be used against the other side. Not true, except in the unlikely event they have the same obsession with an event, keep bringing it up unprompted and telling multiple lies to cover it up. The other side in such a case would just say, “There could be no tape because there was no such incident.”

          9. Why, thanks, JohnK. But I don’t know any more about how you can get a FISA warrant with evidence that is easy to dispute because you forgot to explain that. (See what I mean about the rage getting in the way?) Want to give it another shot?

            Also you said to Nature Mom “Also the Dossier iirc was commissioned first by Democrats and then Republican opposition to Trump bought it, or it might be the opposite. ” The “or it might be the opposite” makes that utterly delightful. It doesn’t matter to your argument if the origin of the dossier was EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what it really was? Wow. Just wow. Your mental processes are…startling.

          10. JohnK, could you point out something in the Steele Dossier that is not true? Anything? My understanding is that everything in it that can be checked has turned out to be true, but perhaps THAT is not true. Got anything?

          11. I already mentioned the golden showers. Where is the proof of that? Real evidence, not corporate media bullshit. I’m waiting.

          12. That wasn’t his question. He asked whether anything in the Steele Dossier has been disproved, because the last time he checked, everything stood either at “unverified” or “confirmed,” rather than “disproved.” (And that’s how Fox News classified it, albeit some time ago!) The pee tape would be in the “unverified” classification. Has anything come along to change that? Are there now “disproved” portions?

          13. JohnK said: “I already mentioned the golden showers. Where is the proof of that? Real evidence, not corporate media bullshit. I’m waiting.”

            Wow. That’s the best you can do, JohnK? Not something that has been proven false, but just something that has not yet been proven to your satisfaction? That Steele dossier must be pretty darn solid!

            Also, you do not address the support TRUMP has lent to the “golden showers” claim by HIS OWN ACTIONS, as laid out by UncleScoopy above. Going to take a crack at that?

          14. I had already addressed this too literally 2 post before:

            “Sorry but you sound like religious people that say you can’t prove that God doesn’t exist. The burden of proof is on you to prove that a claim is true, if you have no evidence and all your sources seem imaginary I’ll just assume it’s fake until there’s more evidence. There hasn’t been a single substantial piece of evidence for the golden showers for example, NOT ONE, it’s all hearsay from unverifiable sources.

            Let me present it to you in a different way, Mr Rogers was a murderer according to my sources, you can’t disprove that either. Your argument is an appeal to authority fallacy, you assume that authority isn’t corrupt or doesn’t have ulterior motives. Great movie btw, I had no idea who Mr Rogers was, what a great human being.”

            Even some Trump supporters (with the emphasis on some) know how to argue better than you people. It’s one fallacy after another, from Kafkaesque theories to burden of proof fallacies and appeals to authority despite an entire corrupt system that really, REALLY wanted to find evidence not finding any.

            It should be noted btw that you think you’re some kind of resistance valiantly fighting against all odds to defeat the bad guys. You’re more like pawns being used by the ruling class, the deep state and corporate media to repeat their talking points and push their agenda. Not that Trump was some big anti-establishment candidate, he is just an obstacle to their plans.

          15. We got it. He asked a simple question – whether any part of the Steele report has been disproved, and your answer decidedly indicates “no.” You even went to the trouble of posting the last time you gave the same answer, which reinforces that you have nothing.

            Don’t bother posting the same thing again. We understand.

            Just for the record, if Roger had asked me, I could have told him some things in the Steele Dossier that have been debunked.

            You need to find some place else to post. You’ve demonstrated that you have no substance, but merely ad hominum remarks. I’m sure there are many lovely right-wing places in Central and Eastern Europe that would truly appreciate hostile invective, dodging the question and personal attacks, but this is not the right soapbox for you to stand on.

  20. Maybe because we’ve seen it before. And the Gaddhafi/neocon natterings are quite typical of a bot. I’ve had run-ins with enough of them to know that from experience.
    Btw, if I’m you, I’m not calling anybody dumb. Pot and kettle.

    1. I’m sure your paranoid mind “saw it before” with other people that were also disagreeing with you. Also the absolute audacity of you defending the invasion in Libya and the subsequent disaster that ruined the lives of millions of people does not go unnoticed. Go accuse a Libyan of nattering about it you self-centered first-world asshole. Shame on you.

  21. My audacity does not go unnoticed huh? Guess I’ll just have to go down to the bunker and cower and cringe for a while.
    Buzz off. I’m done with you.

    1. I wish people thought *I* was audacious, but I am too old and overweight. 🙁 I guess I need to be more like JohnK. Or is it Bill DeeCee? I am confused.

      1. Well Roger, I always wished I could be like David Watts.

        “I am a dull and simple lad
        Cannot tell water from champagne
        And I have never met the Queen
        And I wish I could have all that he has got
        And I wish I could be like David Watts…

        And when I lie on my pillow at night
        I dream I could fight like David Watts
        I’d lead the school team to victory
        And take my exams and pass the lot

        And all the girls in the neighborhood
        Try to go out with David Watts
        They try their best but can’t succeed
        For he is of pure and noble breed”

        Ray Davies

        Well not really. Wiki “David Watts (Song) “. It’s an amusing story.

        1. Hey thanks Bill, I always thought that was a Jam original. You might also like My Perfect Cousin by the Undertones. It’s probly on Yotube by now.

          1. As far as I’m concerned the Jam is the best band not in the RR HOF. Not as rock ‘n roll as Janet Jackson I guess. And very much influenced by two of the Brit Big 4 of the 60s, the Kinks and the Who. I always think of “That’s Entertainment” as kind of a “Dead End Street Part Two”.
            Forget about a reunion though. Buckler hasn’t spoken to Weller since 1982, though Foxton and Weller buried the hatchet some time go.

          2. Yes, the HoF is pretty American-curated. Weller has never been shy about “borrowing”, but he at least he borrows from good places. I remember reading an interview with I think it was Foxton. Weller walked in and started teaching the guys “Start!” and he thought yup, Paul’s been listening to Revolver (Start!:Taxman::My Sweet Lord:He’s So Fine). Sad to see them split, but otherwise we’d have less of the Weller solo stuff. I also went through thinking Gilded Splinters was a Weller composition. In case you missed, Wake Up the Nation is damn good.

        2. Oh, I never aspired to such heights, Bill DeeCee. But “audacious” is kind of a nice adjective to have attached to one’s name, JohnK to the contrary.

          1. Much better than “bold” . The most famous “Bold” was Charles, the last Duke of Burgundy. Mr. Bold decided it was a good idea to go out and fight the Swiss in the dead of winter, this tending to render his fancy knights completely useless. Surprisingly he lost. Mr. Bold got himself chopped up by halberds and skewered by pikes to the point where Mrs. Bold or the court doctor (accounts vary) could only identify him from a scar on his leg, the forest critters having been at his face for a few days. No, audacious is much better than bold.
            Not a trivial episode either. He left no male heirs but because of his daughter’s (she inherited the Low Countries) marriage to an Hapsburg, and then another Habsburg marriage, his great grandson Charles. with a little help from What A Killer Cortez, was the richest and most powerful man in Europe since Charlemagne. The French, who had greased the skids for the bold Charles, were not really happy about that.
            Please pardon the ravings of a former history prof to be.

          2. I like history. Do you mean the empire of Charles V? If you go to Hispanic grocery stores, you can get candy bars called “Carlos V”, so they still remember him in the Old Country.

            Boy, that Low Country stuff came back to bite the Spanish on the butt. The rebellion of the Dutch was a big part of the defeat of the Spanish Armada.

  22. Swedes are catching on…

    “A poll last week showed that Swedes’ confidence in their government’s handling of the crisis has plunged by almost 20 percentage points to less than half the population. On Sunday, the leader of the anti-immigrant Sweden Democrats demanded that Tegnell be fired.”

  23. NM: Sir Ray and should be Sir Pete are both very fond of the Jam. Borrowing from good sources has always been a huge factor in the progress of music. Sometimes it becomes a back and forth thing like Mozart and Haydn. That’s when the getting can really get good (or in rock n’ roll terms, “Work with me Haydn”). But successor borrowing works real well too.
    LOL. Everything is on You Tube now except the last Red Sox-Twins game from 1967 (they do have the Saturday game). I hope someone is working on that. Ain’t nobody electrically keeping a baseball score this summer.

  24. Roger:
    Yep. That Charles. Btw for some baaad history. Somebody on the WAPO site tonight was commenting that Tom Cotton looks like “Goering the founder of the SS”. I don’t think anyone has ever called Cotton Fatty, like they called Goering when they weren’t calling him Meyer. To me Cotton looks like Tony Perkins’ evil cousin.

    1. Himmler founded the SS…and he wasn’t fat. Goering was noted for the Luftwaffe and the Gestapo.

    2. He looks nothing like either Goering or Himmler.

      He does look like Tony Perkins. It’s not good when people think you look like a creepier version of Norman Bates.

  25. Man these strings get tangled up. I did a little eyeballing backwards. None of “John”‘s posts seem to fall within the Pitr/Moscow sleepytime zone. Doesn’t prove anything and I could have overlooked one but still… People are saying.
    I butted cursors with a shitload of PutBots in ’16 on the WAPO & WSJ sites, particularly when Anne Applebaum wrote anything. Boy do the Russians hate her. So do the Trumpkins. Good woman that one.
    One time one of the Post bots, who was actually a fairly amiable sort, unlike our visitor, made the mistake of telling us he was getting sleepy and had to check out. It was late afternoon here in DC. Several of us had the same thought, went off checked time zone differences, came back and let him have it.
    He never posted on WAPO again, at least under that name. Probably had been sent down to a farm team in Ufa or Chelyabinsk.
    Libya, Iraq, your conservatives, Trump only non warmonger – all Botish. Russians tend to get really pissy about Iraq and Libya because these were allies of the Soviet Union they couldn’t protect after the implosion of the Evil Empire. Same thing with the loveable Serbs in the 90s – looong history there. The deep state ref and the Dossiermania have me wondering if Putin’s boys have linked up with QAnon., Qers being obsessive about the SD.

      1. …Probably building up Melania brownie points, hoping to save up for the same Golden Ticket visa her parents got.

  26. Arizona tells hospitals to activate emergency plans amid another record high of average new cases. Not good.

  27. So your country is opening up, riots on the streets about 1 person (albeit an issue full of invective and history), the country loses another 1000 odd people a day and you are all OK with that?

    Is the almighty $ that important that x number of people regained their jobs last month and the nasdaq/sp or whatever is being pillaged by people rorting the system for profits!

    What the fuck is wrong over there?

    As of midnight last night 115,000 people no longer lived in your country!

    That is 100,000 people since 1st April, 9 weeks ago 11,000 humans… black, white, Asian, Latino and everyone else, a week for the last 9 weeks.

    What the fuck is wrong with you people.

    I am old enough to remember the Vietnam War and the outrage over the deaths of US soldiers, 57,000 in 19 years… Are you people crazy letting this slide?

    416,000 in ww2 over 4 years…

    Were is the outrage? Why are you letting a petty, small minded vindictive little man drag you from what is really happening in your country.

    What the fuck is wrong with you people?

  28. With two exceptions, does anybody HERE sound happy about the state of things? You might find some better targets for flaming. Most of us are doing our bit to evict the evil clown. Hell I’m even going to vote nationally for a Democrat for the first time in my life (voted Kasich in 16, have occasionally voted for local Dems). And I live in DC where my vote won’t be remotely necessary.

    1. I am not flaming, I am just looking from afar and wondering what is going on over there?

      And if you followed my posts, you know what side of the fence I sit on.

      Just get your shit together

  29. This seems to be basically friendly fire. You might just get your words together more understandably.

    1. It’s not friendly fire, I read the comments on here and they are hijacked by the Steele dossier, pee tapes and all sorts of random crap… Who the fuck cares, it’s not going to make a difference to the thousands that are sick, dying and their grieving families.

      Too many people caught up in Trumps 3 card Monty game, and missing the real, ongoing problem.

      As I said, looking from afar, this virus is still rampant in your country, but you all seem to have moved on to the next shiny bright object that he is flashing in front of you…

      Keep your head in the real game and get your shit together, if he wins, God help the rest of the world.

      1. Society in the US cares relatively little about its elderly and most vulnerable population.That’s why they warehouse them in for profit nursing homes. So as long as mainly the elderly die from Covid in the US, there is unlikely to be a serious national focus on addressing the pandemic. Americans typically have the attention span of fruit flies.

        1. Tanner, that is not a good road to go down. If Americans are so bad, why make any effort on their behalf? Are they really worth it? There are all kinds out there, good, bad, and indifferent. I have no idea what kind predominates, but I have to think most people are pretty decent. Not all, but a majority.

  30. If I ever get to cast a production of The Pharisee and the Publican”, I know who my Pharisee would be. Have a SAG card?

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