21 thoughts on “Re: the thread on SJP. Some people age better than others.”
Smoking can really age some people.
I think she was also a victim of too much and poor-quality plastic surgery.
Also: Square Pegs was brilliant, and deserved better than it got.
And some people just don’t age well…Exhibit A for bad plastic surgery Is Helen Hunt.
Ouch! From square peg to slutty but evil ambassador on Star Trek. Time is a bastard.
I don’t understand the Star Trek reference. Merritt Butrick was a regular on Square Pegs before playing Kirk’s son in Star Trek II and III. Kim Cattrall was in Star Trek VI and was of course “slutty” Miranda on Sex in the City. Or do you mean she resembles the only person to ever turn down a seat on the Federation Council, T’Pau? No Siree, I am not a nerd…
Not specific, just the sort of vibe I picked up from the After picture
She was very pretty in a Steve Martin movie I liked, “L.A. Story”. But that is now 31 years old, or as old as the movie “Gilda” was in 1977.
That is jolting to me, but the world seems to have changed more from about 1964 to 1974 (roughly) than in any decade I can think of since. Or maybe the decade of one’s teens and twenties seems like that to everyone.
For the United States? I think clearly 1948-1957. Of course, this time period is hardly a normal time period because for the United States (and much of the world) it was essentially, ‘so we’ve returned to where we left off in 1928″ because U.S development pretty much stalled with first the Great Depression, then World War II and finally the inflationary aftermath of World War II. 1948 was basically the closest thing in the world to a ‘normal year’ since 1928.
There were two especially major developments that had been placed on hold since 1928: television and the consequences of the automobile. I think I’ve mentioned both of these things before.
Television was pretty much ready to roll out in 1930 or so, but, because of the Great Depression, the lack of investment money if, nothing else, prevented the development of television stations. So, the receivers were ready by then, but not the senders.
Of course, thanks to World War II, there were a lot of developments in automobiles, so the major consequence of the automobile, the great expansion of the suburbs, would not have occurred have 1930.
As I think I’ve said before, it was the movement to the suburbs, the automobile and television (and film and music) that created teen culture.
So, all of those pent up things (even if they wouldn’t have happened in 1930) started to explode in 1948.
And obviously bubbling along with all of that was the Civil Rights movement.
Of course, United States development did not literally stall in 1928. ‘Thanks’ first to the Great Depression, then World War II and finally the Cold War, the United States spent an enormous amount on its infrastructure. After the start of World War II up until at least the deficit averse Eisenhower Administration, any infrastructure project that could even be remotely tied to war preparation efforts was built.
Add one year to the beginning – 1947 marked the integration of professional sports., Culturally 1948 was like 1947, but 1947 was nothing like 1946.
I think, though, the greatest period of cultural change occurred between June of 1967 and August of 1968: Summer of Love, LBJ steps down, MLK, RFK, Chicago convention, all in rapid-fire order.
That period also included the single greatest change in my life, moving from in utero to ex utero.
Very true, but we didn’t start the fire.
I would still argue that the suburbanization of America is the ongoing most significant change (and now the growth of metropolitan areas) however I happen to have a book on my desk that agrees with you. I don’t know if you’re familiar with it or not
Turning Point: 1968 by Irwin Unger and Debi Unger
From the back of the book taken from the prologue:
“Nothing else during the year (1968) serves as such an obvious symbol for the decade’s climacteric as the Nixon-Agnew victory. Yet, as we have noted, there were other signs and portents: the abandonment of the SDS of its student focus, foreshadowing the organization’s breakup, the exhaustion of the rage and energies that lay behind the ghetto riots and the end of the annual ‘long hot summers’, the collapse of the civil rights movement after the death of Martin Luther King, the decline of hippiedom following the dispersion of Haight-Ashbury and the East Village, and the degrading of the counterculture into commercial freak-chic. In many cases the currents of the decade still had months to play themselves out. In one or two cases – the new feminism, for example – the year was a starting point, not a conclusion. But, if any single years can be called a historical pivot, it was 1968.
I don’t know what ‘commercial freak-chic’ is referring to. The best I can guess is that it’s a reference to things like David Bowie and his look with “Space Oddity” in 1969.
You say 1928 was the last “normal” year before the Great Depression hit. It’s been argued that you could go back even farther than that, because of Prohibition, and before that WWI, which (in the U.S., at least) would take you back another decade, to 1917. But even if you stick with the 1928 bookend year, that’s an entire generation of Americans who were born, grew up, and reached adulthood without knowing what “normal life” was like.
Well, I mostly meant the last normal year from an economic perspective. The Great Depression and World War II greatly limited non government investment, I agree that 1947 was a return to normalcy socially, but the inflation rate that year was over 14%
I also thing the book I mentioned above overstates the case somewhat for 1968 as the sole pivotal year. Inflation started to rise in 1966 and that and other backlashes led to the Republicans gaining 47 seats in the U.S House as well as the election, for instance, of Ronald Reagan as governor of California. I don’t dispute the overall importance of 1968, but 1966 was when public sentiment began shifting.
Reminds me of my grandmother, born 1895. That generation didn’t seem to have a lot of fun in their lives.
Her adult life consisted of WW1, Spanish Flu, Prohibition, Stock Market Crash, Dust Bowl, Depression, WW2, Segregation ..
By the time there was a really “normal” year in 1947, she was a grandmother.
That was the lost generation, as exemplified by the writers who were my grandmother’s contemporaries – Hemingway, Fitzgerald, MacLeish, Hart Crane, Faulkner, Dos Passos, ee cummings – all born in the 1890s.
I guess it’s no coincidence that they left behind a trail of alcoholism, suicide and depression to match their impressive literary output.
And their lives make me very thankful for the comparative ease of my own.
Yes, but don’t forget the United States barely entered World War I. The U.S did not even have food rationing during world war I, though there was an active moral suasion campaign.
Also, a lot of people ignored prohibition. I doubt very much that it was as simple as anybody who wanted to drink alcohol could, but those most interested certainly could and I would think that would especially be the case in the rural areas that were still almost half the population where people could probably find at least one farmer to sell them various home made fermented products.
In a number of facile ways the 1920s mirrored the 1950s, I don’t know how deep these were but I know there are people who have made such comparisons:
1.Both followed the decade after a World War
2.Both were regarded as staid and conservative decades but had a lively counterculture: the flappers of the 1920s and the beatniks of the 1950s.
3.Both featured ‘rebellious’ music: the black jazz music of the 1920s and the rock and roll of the 1950s.
For those who think I’m contradicting what I said previously about the start of teen culture in the 1950s, the beatniks and the flappers were largely college graduates.
4.Both were the first full decade to have major innovations in the automobile and all the changes that brought.
5.Television was new in the 1950s (1948 was the first year of network television) and radio was new in the 1920s.
I would add Dorothy Parker to the list of writers. Born in 1893.
This reminds me of the lyrics to the 1970s Norman Lear TV Show ‘Good Times’ theme song.
ood Times.
Any time you meet a payment.
Good Times.
Any time you need a friend.
Good Times.
Any time you’re out from under.
Not getting hassled, not getting hustled.
Keepin’ your head above water,
Making a wave when you can.
Temporary lay offs.
Good Times.
Easy credit rip offs.
Good Times.
Scratchin’ and survivin’.
Good Times.
Hangin’ in and jivin’
Good Times.
Ain’t we lucky we got ’em
Good Times.
Hard to believe Norman Lear also created the unsuccessful T.V show pilot ‘A Dog’s Life.’
The websites on similarities between the 1920s and 50s also mention that the 1920s was the first decade of consumer culture, while the 1950s brought the return of consumer culture.
In a more specific way of the 1920s and the 1950s being conservative, both decades featured ‘red scares’, the Palmer Raids of the 1920s and the McCarthyism and House UnAmerican Affairs Activities of the 1950s.
Turned in to a goat.
Obviously this is SJP’s punishment for refusing to do nude scenes.
But Heather was starting with a far better set of tools.
Smoking can really age some people.
I think she was also a victim of too much and poor-quality plastic surgery.
Also: Square Pegs was brilliant, and deserved better than it got.
And some people just don’t age well…Exhibit A for bad plastic surgery Is Helen Hunt.
Ouch! From square peg to slutty but evil ambassador on Star Trek. Time is a bastard.
I don’t understand the Star Trek reference. Merritt Butrick was a regular on Square Pegs before playing Kirk’s son in Star Trek II and III. Kim Cattrall was in Star Trek VI and was of course “slutty” Miranda on Sex in the City. Or do you mean she resembles the only person to ever turn down a seat on the Federation Council, T’Pau? No Siree, I am not a nerd…
Not specific, just the sort of vibe I picked up from the After picture
She was very pretty in a Steve Martin movie I liked, “L.A. Story”. But that is now 31 years old, or as old as the movie “Gilda” was in 1977.
That is jolting to me, but the world seems to have changed more from about 1964 to 1974 (roughly) than in any decade I can think of since. Or maybe the decade of one’s teens and twenties seems like that to everyone.
For the United States? I think clearly 1948-1957. Of course, this time period is hardly a normal time period because for the United States (and much of the world) it was essentially, ‘so we’ve returned to where we left off in 1928″ because U.S development pretty much stalled with first the Great Depression, then World War II and finally the inflationary aftermath of World War II. 1948 was basically the closest thing in the world to a ‘normal year’ since 1928.
There were two especially major developments that had been placed on hold since 1928: television and the consequences of the automobile. I think I’ve mentioned both of these things before.
Television was pretty much ready to roll out in 1930 or so, but, because of the Great Depression, the lack of investment money if, nothing else, prevented the development of television stations. So, the receivers were ready by then, but not the senders.
Of course, thanks to World War II, there were a lot of developments in automobiles, so the major consequence of the automobile, the great expansion of the suburbs, would not have occurred have 1930.
As I think I’ve said before, it was the movement to the suburbs, the automobile and television (and film and music) that created teen culture.
So, all of those pent up things (even if they wouldn’t have happened in 1930) started to explode in 1948.
And obviously bubbling along with all of that was the Civil Rights movement.
Of course, United States development did not literally stall in 1928. ‘Thanks’ first to the Great Depression, then World War II and finally the Cold War, the United States spent an enormous amount on its infrastructure. After the start of World War II up until at least the deficit averse Eisenhower Administration, any infrastructure project that could even be remotely tied to war preparation efforts was built.
Add one year to the beginning – 1947 marked the integration of professional sports., Culturally 1948 was like 1947, but 1947 was nothing like 1946.
I think, though, the greatest period of cultural change occurred between June of 1967 and August of 1968: Summer of Love, LBJ steps down, MLK, RFK, Chicago convention, all in rapid-fire order.
That period also included the single greatest change in my life, moving from in utero to ex utero.
Very true, but we didn’t start the fire.
I would still argue that the suburbanization of America is the ongoing most significant change (and now the growth of metropolitan areas) however I happen to have a book on my desk that agrees with you. I don’t know if you’re familiar with it or not
Turning Point: 1968 by Irwin Unger and Debi Unger
From the back of the book taken from the prologue:
“Nothing else during the year (1968) serves as such an obvious symbol for the decade’s climacteric as the Nixon-Agnew victory. Yet, as we have noted, there were other signs and portents: the abandonment of the SDS of its student focus, foreshadowing the organization’s breakup, the exhaustion of the rage and energies that lay behind the ghetto riots and the end of the annual ‘long hot summers’, the collapse of the civil rights movement after the death of Martin Luther King, the decline of hippiedom following the dispersion of Haight-Ashbury and the East Village, and the degrading of the counterculture into commercial freak-chic. In many cases the currents of the decade still had months to play themselves out. In one or two cases – the new feminism, for example – the year was a starting point, not a conclusion. But, if any single years can be called a historical pivot, it was 1968.
I don’t know what ‘commercial freak-chic’ is referring to. The best I can guess is that it’s a reference to things like David Bowie and his look with “Space Oddity” in 1969.
You say 1928 was the last “normal” year before the Great Depression hit. It’s been argued that you could go back even farther than that, because of Prohibition, and before that WWI, which (in the U.S., at least) would take you back another decade, to 1917. But even if you stick with the 1928 bookend year, that’s an entire generation of Americans who were born, grew up, and reached adulthood without knowing what “normal life” was like.
Well, I mostly meant the last normal year from an economic perspective. The Great Depression and World War II greatly limited non government investment, I agree that 1947 was a return to normalcy socially, but the inflation rate that year was over 14%
I also thing the book I mentioned above overstates the case somewhat for 1968 as the sole pivotal year. Inflation started to rise in 1966 and that and other backlashes led to the Republicans gaining 47 seats in the U.S House as well as the election, for instance, of Ronald Reagan as governor of California. I don’t dispute the overall importance of 1968, but 1966 was when public sentiment began shifting.
Reminds me of my grandmother, born 1895. That generation didn’t seem to have a lot of fun in their lives.
Her adult life consisted of WW1, Spanish Flu, Prohibition, Stock Market Crash, Dust Bowl, Depression, WW2, Segregation ..
By the time there was a really “normal” year in 1947, she was a grandmother.
That was the lost generation, as exemplified by the writers who were my grandmother’s contemporaries – Hemingway, Fitzgerald, MacLeish, Hart Crane, Faulkner, Dos Passos, ee cummings – all born in the 1890s.
I guess it’s no coincidence that they left behind a trail of alcoholism, suicide and depression to match their impressive literary output.
And their lives make me very thankful for the comparative ease of my own.
Yes, but don’t forget the United States barely entered World War I. The U.S did not even have food rationing during world war I, though there was an active moral suasion campaign.
Also, a lot of people ignored prohibition. I doubt very much that it was as simple as anybody who wanted to drink alcohol could, but those most interested certainly could and I would think that would especially be the case in the rural areas that were still almost half the population where people could probably find at least one farmer to sell them various home made fermented products.
In a number of facile ways the 1920s mirrored the 1950s, I don’t know how deep these were but I know there are people who have made such comparisons:
1.Both followed the decade after a World War
2.Both were regarded as staid and conservative decades but had a lively counterculture: the flappers of the 1920s and the beatniks of the 1950s.
3.Both featured ‘rebellious’ music: the black jazz music of the 1920s and the rock and roll of the 1950s.
For those who think I’m contradicting what I said previously about the start of teen culture in the 1950s, the beatniks and the flappers were largely college graduates.
4.Both were the first full decade to have major innovations in the automobile and all the changes that brought.
5.Television was new in the 1950s (1948 was the first year of network television) and radio was new in the 1920s.
I would add Dorothy Parker to the list of writers. Born in 1893.
This reminds me of the lyrics to the 1970s Norman Lear TV Show ‘Good Times’ theme song.
ood Times.
Any time you meet a payment.
Good Times.
Any time you need a friend.
Good Times.
Any time you’re out from under.
Not getting hassled, not getting hustled.
Keepin’ your head above water,
Making a wave when you can.
Temporary lay offs.
Good Times.
Easy credit rip offs.
Good Times.
Scratchin’ and survivin’.
Good Times.
Hangin’ in and jivin’
Good Times.
Ain’t we lucky we got ’em
Good Times.
Hard to believe Norman Lear also created the unsuccessful T.V show pilot ‘A Dog’s Life.’
The websites on similarities between the 1920s and 50s also mention that the 1920s was the first decade of consumer culture, while the 1950s brought the return of consumer culture.
In a more specific way of the 1920s and the 1950s being conservative, both decades featured ‘red scares’, the Palmer Raids of the 1920s and the McCarthyism and House UnAmerican Affairs Activities of the 1950s.
Turned in to a goat.
Obviously this is SJP’s punishment for refusing to do nude scenes.
But Heather was starting with a far better set of tools.